Gantz has been translated and published in France for years !

FRANCE WINS !

I've never read the mangas but watched it all streaming and Gantz was pretty darn awesome (also the intro music? AMAZING). I would have to go with the idea that Kiroyu Oka has lots a few marbles. And my answer to 2. would be that immersive apocalyptic/dystrophic situations presented to a average guy/gal are what define your Psychic War genre... altho maybe x-men doesn't slot into that =/

Man, I had a dream about GANTZ a few nights ago, and you were in it. I think that this is odd/disturbing, given that a) I've never read Gantz, and b) the last time I saw you was like nine months ago for two seconds in a movie theatre? And now you're posting about it? Out of my head, O'Malley!

RE: SUBTEXT: I don't think I really ever see much close reading of manga, to be honest, outside of more adult-orientated stuff like Tatsumi or maybe occasionally Tezuka. I guess this is maybe because the only stuff that seems to sell is aimed at kids? Like, GANTZ sounds to me like it's aimed specifically at fifteen-year-olds, though admittedly I've never read it.

PS: Have a good vacation. My advice to you is to Stay Off The Internet.

I think he knows what he's doing with Gantz. There's a lot of "badass" stuff in it, for sure, but the way he draws it - especially the way he draws the "useless" characters getting slaughtered - is way too visceral. I always actually feel scared for them.

I mean, the alternative is that he IS a sociopath, but I feel like the stories wouldn't be so coherent if he was. Although maybe him drawing Gantz is the only thing keeping him from killing us all in our beds?

Hiroyu Oka is a soulless, dispassionate sociopath that knows he's putting in all that subtext. I think you have to be in order to write a story like this well. It also makes the characters much more relatable to the more cynical of us in the audience.

Can't really see a connection between Bleach, Gants, X and X-Men. Maybe, it's the whole group of people fighting a supernatural enemy while the rest of the world lives in blissful ignorance thing that can define the Psychic War genre.

I always thought about the fan reaction to Gantz to be pretty similar to Death Note. In the "OMG! Look how awesome Raito is!" when it's pretty clear, from the very first chapter, that he's not the hero...

Anyways. Here in Buenos Aires, the anime was aired a couple of years ago (don't know if they're making re-runs of it. Haven't seen that channell in a looong time), and the press covered a little of the manga, labelling it as an "adult" manga. I always thought of it more as an "adolescent" manga, in the sense that I can totally see why a teenager could think of it as "adult". The "fucking-the-idol-while-shooting-at-crowds" thing you mentioned in a previous comment.

I've read only the first 21 volumes, the whole first act. I think that Oka is trying to say something about apathy running on the Japanese society (which can be said also for the rest of the world, but on a smaller scale, of course), but then, I guess he's not really trying that hard...

I started reading a few scan...lated(?) episodes of GANTZ a long time ago and lately had been looking for the official translations at cons, shops, and such. I thought it had come out already, but alas.

Your reservations about the manga remind me of how the kids love the film A Clockwork Orange for very similar reasons--it's incredibly violent and "messed up," yet they ignore the questions of free will and psychological conditioning (which is hardly subtext) that make it a worthy novel and not just exploitation.

It's funny you mention X-Men as being part of that genre, 'cause the "cool" character who inflicts a high bodycount reminds me of none other than Wolverine. Despite all the characters with more fantastic powers like laserbeams and weather control the weather, everyone loves the guy who stabs people with the knives that pop out of his knuckles. Nothing like a close-range kill, I guess.

A conversation with my sister after X-Men 2 came out:

"Why did Wolverine have to kill her?"
"Cause he's the best at what he does!"
"Killing indiscriminately?"

I view Gantz the same as Blame. Sure there's a lot of eye candy (different to be sure) but to get to the root of the story takes some thinking.

I'm thinking that Oka is doing a lot of stuff because it's cool. And I get the feeling that he never planned to be doing GANTZ for this long. Hell the anime ending I believe is also written by him. But that scene with the massacare is stomach churning and at the time it was published it read more as a diatribe on terrorism (not much of one mind you).

Simple definition of Psychic Wars? Us vs Them. But the good stuff deals with what happens when you know everything ;)

So is the Matrix a 'psychic war' movie? I still don't quite grasp your definition. Gnostic Comics?

Something that seems to come up often enough is the promise of a bizarre entertainment, but then it kills people. The first arc most of the people were intersted that they were maybe on a reality tv show, but then they died. Then the Oni arc where people were calling their friends to see the aliens, and that even happened with the massacre, then they died. Also now that the Gantz team can be seen people are rooting them on and gathering to see whats happening, then die. And it seems needlessly cruel, almost like Gantz who talks in clipped internet lols to the people he controls, which seems to imply some commentary, somehow?

How do you feel about Oka drawing over computer models that his assistants make?

i THINK Hiroyu Oka is trying to say SOMETHING with Gantz, however, he is also trying to make a sucessful shonen manga, and by doing so he drags out his fights and such. so he does want to insert his subtexts, which im sure in the process of making the comic he thinks are very prominent, but over the span of drawing his weekly (or biweekly now) chapters, the eye candy blurs out the message he's trying to deliver. which can be a good thing, because sometimes the message seems to be some prejudice crap about how he doesnt like black people i guess??

I had the interesting introduction to Gantz as "The most existential comic you'll ever read." which has always colored my view of the series. That said, I think it's an interesting place to start, philosophically speaking.

And from there, I think questioning the flawed (but existant) nature of the "God figure" might be useful (though i've not done any actual thinking on the matter myself [-apologies])

Next: The (lack of a) creation of a 'secret society' for the characters. A primary criteria you mentioned for the Psychic War Genre is the creation of a place where the characters 'belong' and I don't think the Gantz characters have that. Toward the end of the first arc(?) with Karuno, they begin to, with practicing outside missions, but even that still felt more like people huddling in the dark, than them doing anything proactive.


Additionally, the story hints at a society of vampires and clearly shows the aliens as being not necessarily bad, even if they're not 100% altruistic.

The information given to the characters in Gantz is very 'grunt level' as opposed to (for example in Bleach or Naruto) a "General" or even "President's eye" level about what's happening. . . There are clearly groups out there *MUCH* more in the know than even gantz. . .

Ahhh -I'm a big fan of drawing shocking material and violence in any kind of media, but Gantz can really push it. I had a gauntlet reading session with the scans a while back too, and when it got up to the massacre part I just had to take a break because it was too much to not.. really stomach but soul. It wasn't the gore as much as the lack of feeling in that particular storyline, of course that maybe attributed to the way it's drawn with 3-D models Hahahaha. I kid. Though yeah...

Not really sure how to comment about the Psychic War genre, but Gantz Definitely classifies into a Sci-Fi Venereal Horror category along with movies like Scanners. Though keeps pushing the violence. At the end though, Gantz is about a game, so it can be compared to like.. The Roman Coliseum times?! Hahah, so don't really get into the psychological depth of the characters, they're going to die at some point, I think it's about the entertainment here.

I'd heard of Gantz a couple years back.
A pal was totally into the violence...a little TOO much. So, I never tried it out.

Now, you've got me curious about it.

The semi-new Junk, by Kia Asamiya, would fit into your Psychic War category.

And while I didn't know it was going to get so serious, Shadow Star (by Mohiro Kitoh) ended up being in the category as well.
Started out cute and light...contrasting the violence showing up a book later.

Damnit, if subtext ain't ignored in everything.

I wish it wasn't seen as an "extra layer" but rather the necessary infrastructure of all good storytelling.

You know what I mean?

I remember hearing once that the true allegory to the X-men, and the reason for their popularity, is actually comics fandom itself. It actually fits pretty well, when you consider how hidden and "misunderstood" the community is, and how much they'd love to believe the difference grants them power.

I haven't read GANTZ, but it's probably an extension of the same thing. If it's a cult following, the fans may relate to the way the characters are separate from the rest of the world and the feeling that everyone else is missing out. The hero position of a book like X-men is a bit more self-aggrandizing. It sounds like GANTZ is less about feeling more "right" and just about feeling more powerful. Like, here is true power unchecked. This is what we can do. In a way, it's more punk. That's my take.

what's a good site to find Gantz scanlation stuff? i found a few but they all require you to be a member, i don't want to sign up for anything...

I wouldn't put Bleach in with X and GANTZ. Actually, I'm not sure I'd put X and GANTZ together. I think that in order for your definition to be meaningful (and not just another term for "secret history"), along with "learning a secret makes you better than other people," you have to include "the protagonist is into it, even if he/she/the author insists they are not."

In GANTZ: the main character will talk about how horrifying the situation and how much he wishes he could go back to his old life, but he CLEARLY relishes his present situation. Moreover, he talks about how much he wants to save certain people, but then easily kills others; he's loyal to his girlfriend, but happily sleeps with the model after she dies horribly. The author (speaking through the character) is *completely* inconsistent -- I think that in order to take what he says at face value, you'd have to either be sociopathic or have NO critical reading skills.

It's honestly the gap between what the author seems to be saying, and what he's actually showing, that makes GANTZ so incredibly disturbing. This to me speaks of an author who knows what his characters *should* be saying, but who can't see that what they're doing is in total contradiction. So yes, I am in the "Oka is sociopath" camp.

In X (CLAMP in general): The characters are special, but not because they've learned a secret. They were born special. Whether or not they want to be that way (most of them don't) doesn't really enter into it, because they don't have a choice. Of course, the GANTZ characters don't have a choice either -- but they still make choices, even if all of their choices result in the same thing (death). In a CLAMP manga, the characters don't make choices. Everything is predestined: the characters just act out their roles.

Obviously, CLAMP = God in this scenario.

In Bleach: Ichigo is accidentally inducted into a secret war (between Shinigami and Hollows, later between Shinigami and [spoiler]), but does not, even subconsciously, relish his participation. He initially refuses, but changes his mind after he sees someone in trouble, because he has a Superman complex (spoofed in the art). Eventually, he accepts his new life -- but accepts it grudgingly. It's inconvenient, and he doesn't get anything he wants out of it, besides the ability to protect people.

BTW, Ichigo's characterization in Bleach is totally believable. (Unlike Oka's characterization of the protagonist in GANTZ.) Ichigo isn't trying to escape his real life. Despite his unusual appearance and powers, he's well-adjusted: he has a loving (albeit crazy) family and good (albeit equally crazy) friends. No one dies in Bleach. It, and One Piece, might be the least sociopathic series currently running in Jump.

Sorry for the essay man. ^^;

I think he knows the subtext he's putting in. There's a definate character arc to Kurono over the 20 volumes before he's put on "hiatus" (and that character is further illustrated when he loses his memory of having gone through it and is turned back into the selfish disassociative douchebag teenager he started out as).

There are two extremes represented by the characters populating the Japan illustrated in GANTZ; the selfless and the selfish. The "Selfless" characters are the ones that have more humanistic tendancies... they feel empathy towards others and value others. The selfish characters are portrayed as being abnormal, with sociopathic tendancies and a lack of emotion and empathy. Kurono starts off as selfish, and all his motivations are selfish... he has no empathy towards the aliens he kills, which is why the aliens are generally portrayed as being somewhat sympathetic characters despite their murderous tendancies... for Example the Onion aliens were father and son, and the 'Father' only kills because his son was attacked... he was provoked. During the entire fight, he's crying. The Tanaka aliens (the birds) are also a family... and the Bao aliens (the only aliens to talk so far) are 'comrades', and the last surviving aliens tries to avenge them. These are all in contrast to Kurono, at first, kills out of a feeling of empowerment.

The Statue aliens, by contrast, are just monsters... they have no expression or character... they just kill. This is just a device to force Kurono to realize the horror of witnessing how the death of people you care for (Kishimoto, Kaito, and 'Angelina Jolie' who die selflessly protecting him and the others) being murdered. After this he becomes a more selfless character and feels empathy for others... he motivations change from empowerment and sexual gratification, to protecting others and living to see his girlfriend, Tae... but now the aliens become less sympathetic and more monsterous.

I'm obviously not very knowledgeable about the nuances of everyday Japanese society, but I'm wondering of GANTZ is being critical of the modern day mindset of Japanese youth, possibly? Either way it's definately critical of human nature as a whole, and the instinct to put ones own well being and gratification before that of others (which is really the crux of the entire series from the on-set... out of an entire train station, ONE guy tries to save that old lady... and Kurono, as he was at the beginning of the series, does nothing but complain about being FORCED into saving her, which he only does so as to avoid embarrassment since he's been called out by Kaito).

I have a few friends who're totally in love with the anime series but aside from the amazing opening theme I've never really been interested in checking it out. I remember watching part of an episode which just seems like an excuse for extreme violence and tit-shots which completely turned me off. I'm more into slice of life kinda series like Beck and Welcome to the NHK anyways, I guess. Extremely violent comic authors tend to go overboard with the gore and brutality fanservice with no real sense of conscience or moral lesson behind it. I mean as a human being I love violence but it's shallow without an emotional connection behind it.

I much prefer the way it's done in series like Rurouni Kenshin and One Piece where the heroes aren't just trolling around looking to get into a brawl and in certain cases have these Ghandi moments where they go to nearly fatal lengths to turn the other cheek when they could easily clobber a guy.

Woah. Gantz has tits and murder? I'm there.

I did not bother reading through the 51 comments, so forgive me if it's already been mentioned (and it likely has) but you can't talk about "Psychic War" and not bring up Akira. And the movie (while visually stunning) barely even scratches the surface. You gotta go to the manga and all it's epic glory.

I only just started reading Gantz after reading this post/comments (I never know what manga to read and always stumble onto ridiculous manga about cooking curry, or something) but, at chapter 23, I have to belive that the author knows what he's doing. (Of course, it doesn't really matter - subtext exists whether you want it to or not, in my view.)

I liked the term "Psychic War" - I've never heard the term, but it seems right. The wars, after all, aren't really about physical conflicts, they're mental battles where moral and emotional conflicts are hyperrealized: Gantz's 'other world' is a dreamscape, physically divorced from reality, where the grotesque, reprehensible and violent can intrude. I'd say titles like it usually contain The Other, in some way or another: X-Men has whole other geographies above, below, parallel and just out of sight. They also usually contain some kind of physical transformation, internal or external: for example, the 'suits' in Gantz are explicitly and even a little grotesquely physicalised, even if they don't represent the kind of internal transformation that X-Men does.

I feel like I'm coming at Gantz a little differently from some, though, which may just be because I'm only at the beginning. To me, it seems like it has more like NGE, in the sense of trying to comment on what the author sees as a deceptively poisonous culture: for NGE it's anime, and Gantz it might be videogames? NGE occurs in an otherworld as well, if you think about it - the slowly decimated Tokyo-3, almost vestigial, over which a sequence of utterly incomprehensible Alien threats intrude.

Essaytimes!!

Michael Cera as Scott Pilgrim?!!

MUSCLE RIDER!

Muscle Rider is the proof that Oka is not soulless. I think he knows what he's doing.