destroyerzooey: Attn Wikipedians

Bryan Lee O'Malley (

destroyerzooey) wrote,
@ 2007-02-10 11:34:00

Entry tags:

internet, kupek, life

Attn Wikipedians
Apparently the Oni Press Wikipedia article has been flagged because it is suggested that Oni Press is not a "notable" company, and should be deleted. As everyone knows, there are plenty of Wikipedia articles about ridiculous crap, and I think a 10-year-old comics publisher with a good stable of creators and a solid library of works qualifies for an article.

SO: if you are a Wikipedia person, or a writer in general, and you know a little about Oni Press (or know how to Google the information), could you please go in there and rewrite the stupid article and cite sources and all that stuff? I would work on it, but I don't have the time (and I have a conflict of interest, sort of?).

Other news: I'm playing songs at Gus' Pub tonight. My guitar (which is really Hope's guitar, handed down from Hope's mom) is really old and the wood is splitting and it's a little buzzy. I could probably patch it up with like, duct tape, but that would probably wreck the finish. I need to take it in and get it looked at. We did that once in Chicago a few years ago, but it needs some more loving care, obviously. Anyway, clearly I can't do that until after the show, so hopefully someone will have a guitar for me to borrow, or maybe I'll just be ... reeeeally careful?

P.S. I got a few reference photos of Sneaky Dee's (see my previous entry), but if you were planning to go take pictures, I'm sure a few more wouldn't hurt. Like for example I can't remember what the floor looks like.

(Post a new comment)

	mckenzee 2007-02-10 03:56 pm UTC (link)
	Did you see the Fleen article on the communicability of non-notability? (Reply to this)

ndgmtlcd
2007-02-10 03:59 pm UTC (link)

There's more to it than just Googling ONI press and citing sources. You really have to dig deep in the sources and read Wikipedia policies and it requires some serious work, and effort. It has to be really solid and founded on Wikipedia practices too. There's currently a really mean, vindictive series of nominations for deletions (AFDs) and assorted things going on at Wikipedia right now, most of them having to do with Comics and Web comics articles.

To give just one example, Paul Southworth, a Web Comics artist got involved in saving somebody' else's Web Comics article from deletion and as a result the "losers" in that deletion attempt got together to attempt delete Paul Southworth's article on one of his own Web comics, Ugly Hill.

I got just slightly involved with this, just inserting A "KEEP" line with a short explanation in the AFD discussion on Ugly Hill and the next day somebody had slapped an "OR" or "Original Research" accusation on the most visible list of articles I had started writing there more than three years ago. Nobody had ever done this to me before, on any article I'd written in those years.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	destroyerzooey 2007-02-10 04:02 pm UTC (link)
	maybe the Great Wikpedia Experiment is just going down in flames as we speak! oh well. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

jestermotley
2007-02-10 04:54 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, Wiki is attempting to be a REAL encyclopedia. When, it can't be? It needs to just face facts and have some psuedo reliable sources and then be a mecha for pop and indie culture info.

There's a real interesting article about the geek sheek idea of being noted on Wikipedia.

Well whatever, i posted a few externally linked facts, damn the Eisners for not having a reliable backlog of all their nominations.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	reyyy 2007-02-10 09:09 pm UTC (link)
	This is really interesting and made me visit my own related Wiki's to see their integrity status... Amazingly, they're still around. How can I be legitimate, but not Oni? I just don't understand most humans or their weird technologies. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	coyotecoyote 2007-02-11 05:33 am UTC (link)
	Ha ha! You're next! (Reply to this)(Parent)

happymrlocust
2007-02-10 10:37 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, Wiki is attempting to be a REAL encyclopedia.

On that note, I'm not sure why Wiki can't be a "real" encyclopaedia and a sort of pop culture repository of notable things. It seems counter to what Wikipedia is ultimately *about* that there's a sense that they can't do both, it's not like it's limited by space or people who would be willing to contribute to both ends.

What would be nice if someone who knew Oni Press' history could contribute to that article, because at the moment it does seem that it is a little useless to anyone who really wants to find out about Oni Press (though more useful than the Bunny article, which survived a AFD for reasons I'm still trying to figure out).

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	telecart 2007-02-11 01:29 am UTC (link)
	Take a look at the laughable William Morrow article. Seems rather silly, I mean, the book infobox has a place for "Publisher", but it seems quite trivial that most publishing houses don't have multiple independent scholarly publications about them. Wikipedia notability is just crap. (Reply to this)(Parent)

happymrlocust
2007-02-10 11:15 pm UTC (link)

Wikipedia seems to be suffering from the same problem that most organisations do... people being really really stupid.

I think the Oni Press article could be very good going by the Notability Guidelines.

"It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company, corporation, organization, or group, or of the product's or service's manufacturer or vendor, itself, and reliable."

I can't imagine Oni Press has not had articles written about it in industry magazines (Eye on Comics seems to have a whole section devoted to it) or been involved in creator interviews who talk about the company itself. I suppose it's just a case of finding them.

Then again, if that isn't enough, then all publishers are going to have issues on Wikipedia.

Dealing with the people who don't seem to think that Comics count as any sort of literature or don't feel that publishers don't deserve to be there and seem to feel that it's ok to commit a few character assassinations along the way... is probably going to be a bit more difficult.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	headlesspuppet 2007-02-10 04:34 pm UTC (link)
	you should check out the discussion page on sweatdrop wiki article concerning delete petition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sweatdrop_Studios_%282nd_nomination%29 some admin on wiki seems to hell bend to delete all the comic-creators related articles. not notable because they never pulled their head out of their ass long enough to see I suppose (Reply to this)

	elio 2007-02-10 04:49 pm UTC (link)
	Oni not noteable? That makes me laugh. Wiki is weirdo. PS. I thought I saw you downtown Chicago at an art supply store two days ago looking at paper. I freaked out. It's ok though, turns out bryan lee o'malley impersontators are pretty friendly too. (Reply to this)

But I was not a webcomic, so I said nothing

phlebas
2007-02-10 05:27 pm UTC (link)

It seems a little odd that the notability criteria for companies in general doesn't have more specific notes concerning publishers, comics or otherwise - I'd have thought a lot of articles on say small record labels would be similarly vulnerable, given they tend equally to be defined more by output and personnel than corporate visibility per se. Fortunately there doesn't appear to be a clique of editors with a vendetta against indie records at this present time.
It does seem a little ironic that the top item on the Oni discussion page is a note encouraging people to join in with the comics WikiProject - putting hours of work into pages which are liable to be arbitrarily marked for deletion seems a little less than worthwhile.
I'd guess the most important thing to do is to encourage people to tackle the problem on WP's terms - making edits to provide qualifying content and contributing to the deletion discussion with few and valid arguments rather than spamming with "I vote to keep the article and you have to listen to me" as unfortunately some seem to have been doing.

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	youri_zoutman 2007-02-10 05:53 pm UTC (link)
	Some Wiki users also saw fit to delete the article on Drew Edwards' web (And soon print) comic Halloween Man, because it was a vanity article. While Drew never actually edited anything except maybe correcting facts. (Reply to this)

	nervousystem 2007-02-10 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	That's messed up. Who are they to decide what is and isn't "notable?" Just because a person doesn't personally care or have interest in a subject doesn't mean it's not important. Chauvanism at its worst. Hopefully the anticomics movement gets overthrown, but that notice doesn't seem likely. "Not notable?" Something's really wrong with these people. (Reply to this)(Thread)

phlebas
2007-02-11 05:05 pm UTC (link)

Who are they to decide what is and isn't "notable?"

Well, Wikipedia has specific criteria which are supposed to determine whether something should be included - 'notable' in this context means whether the article and its subject satisfy those criteria rather than being about how many comics enthusiasts might complain if the article was deleted - for precisely the reasons you mention, the decision shouldn't be a subjective or democratic one.
Whether their criteria are good ones is a separate question (in this case it does seem odd that there aren't specific notes concerning publishers whose work is considered notable). If otherwise sensible articles can't be made to comply with the criteria and it's clear that they really should be included, that's the level at which the problem must be attacked by well-reasoned argument.

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	chrisarrant 2007-02-10 07:14 pm UTC (link)
	I'll mess around with it today. (Reply to this)

goldeneyed
2007-02-10 08:22 pm UTC (link)

I've had some very, very limited experience contributing to Wikipedia, and even I've run across some serious ugliness there... I don't see what the point in undoing peoples' contributions or erasing entire articles is, aside from being a really sad "power trip" for desperate losers.

I would think the extensive list of publications in the article should prove Oni as a "notable" publisher, but who knows with these people.

(Reply to this)

	hirovox 2007-02-10 09:31 pm UTC (link)
	I thought the floor was a checkered pattern that was all cracked and scuffed up from years of vomit and abuse...huh. Now I'm curious... (Reply to this)

coyotecoyote
2007-02-10 10:50 pm UTC (link)

I sort of understood the deletion of webcomics articles because a lot of them were vanity articles made by the authors of said comics about their unpopular comics scawled on notebook paper about their friends in high school.
Someone who doesn't read webcomics might have trouble understanding that not all webcomics are just some guy with a scanner and free time.

But if they're going after print companies now, this shows more of a bias towards comics in general.

Besides, what the fuck is the point of Wikipedia if you can't look up really obscure stuff on it?

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	littlegirltoast 2007-02-10 11:17 pm UTC (link)
	If I can beat a non-notability rap with my little newspaper column and rap awards, then Oni is in no legitimate danger. We got Audra's guitar fixed at the Folklore Centre on Brunswick Street, across from the Spring Garden Rd libary! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	destroyerzooey 2007-02-11 04:05 pm UTC (link)
	I thought that's where I'd try taking it. Hope is reluctant to put any more money into fixing it, but I want to at least ask the people there what they think. I mean, when guitar-folks look at this guitar, they tend to get all mushy about it. I think it's worth keeping. plus this one time joel plaskett touched it (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kingdodongo 2007-02-11 12:00 am UTC (link)
	OH MANNNN FUUUUUUCK THAAAAAT Maybe it's our connection to Colbert that makes them uneasy (Reply to this)

	telecart 2007-02-11 01:35 am UTC (link)
	IDW Publishing and VIPER Comics seem to be in the same boat. I seriously have no will to deal with wikigeek losers who instead of writing new articles or improving old ones, have nothing better to do but delete other wikipedians hard work with bullshit encyclopedic standards which 99% of wikipedia entries do not uphold. (Reply to this)

	p_frank 2007-02-11 10:15 am UTC (link)
	Having had my comic deleted from Wikipedia, I'm a tiny bit bitter :) I find it completely hilarious that so many Oni books and creators are notable, but the company that puts out their work is not. (Reply to this)

	gregusa 2007-02-11 02:37 pm UTC (link)
	I completely ignore Wikipedia. I find it not notable. (Reply to this)

lunarworks
2007-02-11 10:14 pm UTC (link)

This whole "notability" argument on Wikipedia tends to be bullshit, as notability is completely relative. A lot of these morons who go around spewing forth about how something isn't notable probably also put-up an article about the high school they went to that no one outside of their town has heard of. (For that matter, I put up an article about the school I attended... but that magic freak Doug Henning was a product of its education, so I suppose that makes it notable.)

But man, the time I got into the biggest argument with these vindictive dorks was when they shot down something pretty interesting as "non-notable", and then placed BULBASAUR on the front page as the featured article.

Anyway, it's a bunch of unstable rejects taking-out their anger on people who can't easily defend themselves, much like bus drivers.

(Reply to this)

	dewline 2007-02-14 02:58 pm UTC (link)
	Seems to have been successfully remedied, at least for the moment... (Reply to this)

	I was wondering... epiphi 2007-03-01 02:11 am UTC (link)
	I downloaded the tracks from your purevolume page, but can't seem to access the bittorrent. Have you taken it down, or am I just doing this weirdly or something? I loved the tracks I got, and I'd really like to hear more. Thanks. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: I was wondering... destroyerzooey 2007-03-01 02:22 am UTC (link)
	It's broken right now. I'm planning to upload mp3s of everything, I'm just slowly tweaking and remastering stuff right now. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I was wondering... epiphi 2007-03-01 04:00 am UTC (link)
	Okay, thanks. Looking forward to when the mp3s are available, then. Get lots of work done on Scotty so we can revel in its glory once more! (We are your infamous little-kid fans; I think I may have volumes 1-3 memorised. Like, I could actually recite them. We're pretty crazy.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

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